Did you know science shows that mindfulness can do more than just help you relax? It can improve sleep, reduce anxiety, and might even slow brain aging? That’s more than just symptom relief!

Diana Winston, director of UCLA Mindful, joins me to explore how meditation can support your menopause experience. She makes mindfulness accessible for everyone, even those who feel too busy or think it’s not for them.

Diana shares practical tips for beginners, like starting with just five minutes a day using free apps like UCLA Mindful, or the Happier app, which has just released a new mindful guide to menopause. She also introduces the simple STOP technique to help ease anxiety and break the cycle of rumination. 

Instead of viewing menopause as a loss, meditation can help reframe this season as an opportunity for greater authenticity, power, and freedom. Why not start here? 

Connect with Diana
The Website: https://dianawinston.com/
Instagram: @uclamindful

Links Mentioned: 

Happier Mindful Menopause Guide

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TRANSCRIPT

Jenn Salib Huber: 0:24

Hi and welcome to the Midlife Feast, the podcast for women who are hungry for more in this season of life. I'm your host, Dr Jen n Salib-Huber. I'm an intuitive eating dietitian and naturopathic doctor, and I help women manage menopause without dieting and food rules. Come to my table, listen and learn from me trusted guest experts in women's health and interviews with women just like you. Each episode brings to the table juicy conversations designed to help you feast on midlife. And if you're looking for more information about menopause, nutrition and intuitive eating, check out the Midlife Feast Community, my monthly membership that combines my no-nonsense approach that you all love to nutrition with community, so that you can learn from me and others who can relate to the cheers and challenges of midlife.

This year, I did something I have never done before. I joined a mindfulness-based meditation group and learned alongside others for eight weeks how to practice mindfulness-based meditation, and I realized that not only is it a great tool for anybody in post-menopause, but that I really wish that I had had this tool in my toolbox much earlier in my life, especially in perimenopause, when the anxiety and the sleep changes and really being in the thick of that not feeling like myself was at its peak. And I also realized that in all of the episodes that I've done on this podcast, I've never actually talked to somebody about meditation. 

So I'm really excited to bring you this conversation with Diana Winston. Diana is the director of UCLA Mindful, which is the mindfulness education center at the University of California, los Angeles campus. She's also an author, she's a speaker and, as you'll hear, what she has to say about meditation makes it feel much more accessible. I loved that our conversation touched on the science, because I love to understand how things work, and she shares some of her kind of best resources for helping anyone just to get started with it, especially and I really want to emphasize this, especially if you feel like you're not a meditation kind of person, because there are tools out there for everyone and be sure to check the show notes. 

We've got some special resources listed there. But, as always, I'd love to hear has meditation been helpful to you? Is this something that you've included either before, during or after menopause? I'd love to keep the conversation going on this. Hi, diana, welcome to the midlife feast. Great to be here, thank you. So I'm I'm excited to talk about this because I describe myself and listeners will have heard me say this before as a card-carrying member of the type A, go, go, go, get as much done as I can as possible in my waking hours, I'm part of that club.

Jenn Salib Huber: 3:24

But in the last couple of years I've been more intentional about trying to carve out pockets of my day, of my life and using tools like meditation.

Jenn Salib Huber: 3:35

It started with sleep, when I was really in the kind of thick of sleep woes that I'm sure we'll talk about shortly around. You know, perimenopause and menopause, that I discovered Yoga Nidra, that I discovered Yoga Nidra and that was kind of my first real introduction to the non, what I would consider the stereotypical, you know, sitting with your legs crossed and your eyes closed, meditation, because that's what I had envisioned meditation was, and I knew I was not cut from that cloth. But the first, or felt like I was, and my first, you know, introduction to Yoga Nidra, which was like in bed, lying down and being able to move gently while also breathing, and realizing that like meditation didn't have one look, there wasn't one type of meditation. So I'm really excited to have this conversation with you, so welcome, thank you. So I'd love to hear a little bit more about your journey. And, you know, introduce yourself to the audience and who you are and what you do and how you get to be this person who focuses so much on meditation.

Diana Winston: 4:34

Yeah, well, I started meditating when I was traveling around in India in the late 80s. I had just graduated from college, wasn't sure what I was doing and I was visiting all the tourist sites and kind of bumming around and ended up in Dharamsala, india, which is where the Dalai Lama's government in exile is, and it's essentially a Buddhist town, right. And so everybody is meditating, there's all these meditations and teachings and practices, and I would say it's a little peer pressure, like everybody else was doing it. But I ended up just getting very curious about it. At first I was a little skeptical, did my first meditation retreat there and I was just kind of blown away. Like this helps explain my life.

How Mindfulness Transforms Daily Life and Reduces Stress

Diana Winston: 5:20

I was also very type A as well, very driven, and some of the teachings that I heard in that initial time I did the meditation retreat were teachings that reminded me that we can chase after the A and try to get all the praise we want and try to be perfectionists, but there'll always be this kind of like this backlash, right, that we would always, you know, not always get the A and we wouldn't always be perfect and what we could do. We didn't have control over the ups and downs of life. But what we did have control over with was our mind and what we could do and how we could relate to it. And I think, you know, as a young person I was just kind of blown away like, oh, I could really have a mind of peace. And they said, and the way to get to that is through meditating. So that was the start. So I then spent the next many, many years living in monasteries and retreat centers in Asia and the US practicing specifically mindfulness meditation.

Diana Winston: 6:17

That's the type of meditation that I teach. And just to take a tiny step back, meditation's a big word, like sports. It's a huge category. Sports is a huge category, so is meditation. There's hundreds of types of probably thousands of types of sports. There's dozens and dozens and dozens of types of meditation, and so mindfulness is what I focus on, but there's other ones people have done transcendental meditation, or moving meditations, or prayer, or visualization. There's so many types, mindfulness I can go into more, but I'll just say that what ended up having that became my focus, and as I practiced it, I soon started to teach it. And I was teaching initially in the Buddhist context, but got very interested in how these practices would make a difference to people from all backgrounds. And that's when I got connected to UCLA and, about 20 years ago, was hired to start a mindfulness program at UCLA which I've been teaching for the last yeah, like the last 20 years.

Jenn Salib Huber: 7:20

Wow, and it's interesting that you, that you described the different types and I think that that's a great reminder, because I do think, think that, like, very much like, I had this idea of what meditation was. It is like such a big category and the mindfulness-based stress reduction is actually so. I'm just finishing up an eight-week course as a student in learning that and it has been really, really helpful to not only broaden my definition of what meditation is but also reinforce that it really is a practice, that it's not something that you can just read once, do once, that it really is about the practice, and that's kind of what the I guess what the work is is trying to quiet the mind over and over and over and over again, but it's not easy, it's not easy, right, and we're not automatically good at it.

Diana Winston: 8:12

You know what I mean. Like, the overachievers in us are like, okay, I'm just going to meditate, and then people get frustrated because they have this expectation oh, my mind's going to go blank and I'm going to be in deep peace or something. And that is not what happens to people. And it is exactly as you said. It's a practice. Your mind wanders and you try to stay focused and wanders away and you learn to gently bring it back into the present moment, and that is that's the ingredient that leads to us having more and more capacity to be mindful and present in life.

The Science Behind Mindfulness: What Research Tells Us

Jenn Salib Huber: 8:41

I love it. So I want to kind of talk about menopause. So obviously most of my listeners, my audience, are in some stage of midlife or menopause or beyond, and I wouldn't 10 years ago if you had asked me, can meditation help with the symptoms of menopause? I would have been like, well, it might help you sleep or it might help you, like, relax. But there's actually been quite a bit of research over the last you know few years looking at how you know people who are going through menopause. When they include meditation-based practices into their lives. It's not just the symptoms that improve. But interestingly, I was reading that they report just kind of feeling better about menopause, which I thought was really interesting. I'd love if you could speak a little bit to that connection between menopause and meditation. Sure.

Diana Winston: 9:31

Well, I mean well, first of all, the research is still pretty young around that and what we can more look at is the general research around mindfulness, but and which also has the same function that people will say my life improved. Yes, the symptoms to such and such improve, but actually it was my life improved. Yes, the symptoms to such and such improved, but actually it was my life improvement. Especially, like, as you know, for the MBSR program, when they started working with mindfulness-based stress reduction with people with chronic pain, they found that sometimes there was a symptoms reduction. Frequently there was symptom reduction but, more importantly, people's ability to tolerate it and quality of life improves significantly.

Diana Winston: 10:09

So we're kind of looking at the same thing with a lot of symptomology and particularly, as you're pointing out, in relation to menopause. So much of the research that looks at things like how mindfulness impacts mood, how mindfulness impacts anxiety and depression, how mindfulness impacts sleep very positive, very robust results looking at that, and these are all sort of the classic symptoms of menopause. So I think, as people more and more like I'm saying, the research on menopause is still early but as people more and more begin to put together all the symptoms and go, wait a minute mindfulness is helpful for this, this and this. It's going to be helpful here.

Jenn Salib Huber: 10:48

And you know, I thought what I think is interesting too is that people often think about hot flashes as being the most bothersome, and there's no doubt Anyone who's had one knows they're not fun, but they're also in many ways the easiest to treat, like we have really effective treatments for them. Whereas the sleep changes, the mood changes, the anxiety, those are often the ones that don't respond as quickly and because they're not only caused by you know one thing you know there's a hormonal influence and obviously, when we go through menopause and our hormone level shift, especially estrogen and progesterone, that impacts the brain and that certainly impacts how the neurotransmitters interact with, you know, with our brain. But it's not just the hormones like.

Jenn Salib Huber: 11:33

There's so many other things that are happening in this season of life. You know it's often really busy. You know whether you have kids or not and what ages they are, if you're in the sandwich generation, if you work, you know other responsibilities. There's so many things that I think are benefited, or you know other responsibilities. There's so many things that I think are benefited or you know can benefit from meditation, regardless of menopause's influence. I think that's really been the take home for me is that you know, when I'm talking to people who have these symptoms now and saying like well, have you considered meditation or have you considered learning this? They're like oh no, that's not going to work. I've tried everything for my anxiety. There's no way that meditation is going to work.

Jenn Salib Huber: 12:11

I'm sure you've heard that right People are skeptical about how it might help them. How do you respond to that? How do you help them overcome that barrier?

Simple Mindfulness Practices for Busy People

Diana Winston: 12:19

You know, I mean, in order for meditation to work, someone has to do it. So if a person is just like, no, it's not for me, I'm not interested, I never push. But what I would say is look at the science. Here's what the science shows in terms of, you know, helpful with anxiety, depression, chronic pain, insomnia. It impacts, I mean, many other things that are not even symptoms, but things like improves markers of altruism, which is interesting changes the brain. Like.

Diana Winston: 12:49

One of the interesting studies looked at advanced meditators and saw that certain regions of the brain were thicker than people of the same age range, because this is obviously related to aging. It's called age-related cortical decline. Our brain thins out. So if you want something else to worry about, there you go. But in advanced meditators the brain is not thinning out in the same way, and especially in particular areas of the brain that we at Midlife want to stay robust the prefrontal cortex right, responsible for executive functioning. So we can show people the science and they can kind of look at it.

Diana Winston: 13:28

And then what I always say is just try it. You know, try it, but don't just try it once and go okay, that didn't work. Try it and see and notice how it impacts your life, and oftentimes people like, especially the perfectionists, want to like get it right. But it's not really about like, how many times can you pay attention to your breathing? Like does, is that success? It's not success. It's what's happening in my life when I do it. Am I feeling a little bit more ease? Am I yelling at my kid less? Am I a little bit more calm when I'm driving? Am I not worrying about things and going into rumination so much? That's a sign that meditation is working and it's sort of like that's what we want to have. People. If they get to that place, then it's like oh yeah, I get it. I get why I would want to do this.

Jenn Salib Huber: 14:16

I'd love to talk about the science in one minute, but something you said about the not yelling at your kids really reminded me of. You know this concept of like mental rage and you know it's this really intangible thing. But that feels very real and one of the ways that I experienced it, and that I've heard others experience it, is this decreased ability to cope. Just feeling like I can't cope with things in the way that I did 10 years ago, 20 years ago, things that would never have stressed me out now make me worry for days and I think that that's a really hard thing to treat medically or, you know, in the conventional sense. But recognizing that meditation may have an impact on that, I think might be really helpful to people who are experiencing some of that almost feels like a personality change. You know that you're quick to anger and you feel really just prickly all the time you know, and that's a really hard symptom to live with.

Jenn Salib Huber: 15:19

It does get better, thankfully on its own, you know as you kind of come through the other side, but when it's there it's really uncomfortable. But I'd love to talk more about the science because I was fascinated about what you were saying. So if you have a skeptic who wants to learn more, they're not convinced that they're interested in learning more. What's your best sales pitch for the science of meditation?

Diana Winston: 15:40

Well, this is what I'm saying. I don't. I don't do sales pitch. It's like come if you're interested, but what I will say.

Breaking Common Myths About Meditation

Diana Winston: 15:47

I was starting to go into it a little bit, but the science is pretty robust around impacting stress-related physical conditions. So things like high blood pressure, boosting the immune system, helping with the healing response, reducing inflammation, like there's research showing that, for instance, genetic markers of inflammation are impacted positively through mindfulness practice. So that's one area. And then another area is the area of mental health. I mean, mindfulness is a very effective tool for anxiety and depression and other issues, and I just want to echo something that you're saying. When we're going through menopause and we're having this menobrain and all this stuff and the rage that you're talking about, you're right, it's other things too. I mean, our world is in the state of disarray, right. 

There's so many things impacting us. So, yes, we can treat it hormonally or however, but having multiple tools is really really helpful. So anxiety and depression was one area, and one of the things that's interesting is mindfulness has been incorporated into a number of clinical mental health treatments for anxiety and depression. So there's cognitive behavioral therapy, but then there's mindfulness-based cognitive therapy, so there are things like that that use mindfulness as a foundation. They're proven to be quite effective.

Diana Winston: 17:13

Other areas are attention. So our ADD nature is impacted. We did early studies at UCLA looking at the impact of mindfulness on people with ADHD, both adults and adolescents, and found very good results with that ability to attend to the present moment when you're having things distracting you. So if I were to say, focus on my hand, it's one focus, and then I were to distract you, it's hard to do People with ADD, it's much harder to do and that ability, that conflict attention, improves significantly through like an eight-week mindfulness course. Oh wow.

Practical Mindfulness Techniques You Can Start Today

Diana Winston: 17:52

So those are some areas, but then it goes, it just extends. There's mindfulness impact. There's lots of studies on insomnia. I've been involved with many years of research. I'm not a researcher, I just do the teaching and create protocols and stuff. But for breast cancer survivors and we've had fantastic results with people who especially younger breast cancer survivors, women under 50 who've gone through it and then have to live the rest of their life right and there's always that threat of cancer recurrence. So helping them with exactly what we're talking about in the beginning, the quality of life can get better. So we don't live with the fear and the ruminations and just want to say that that's one of the best tools that mindfulness offers us. It helps us to manage the ruminations. Mindfulness is okay, if I just kind of define it for people.

Jenn Salib Huber: 18:45

Please do, please do.

Diana Winston: 18:46

Okay. So I define mindfulness as paying attention to our present moment experiences, with openness, curiosity and a willingness to be with that experience. So it's about coming into the present moment. Much of the time we're lost in the past or the future, we're replaying something. Why did I do that? Why did I say that? Oh, I shouldn't have done that, right. That's where our mind goes. Or we go into the future planning, obsessing, worrying, going into the worst case scenario right and we tend to go back and forth between the two and then sometimes we're in the present moment.

Diana Winston: 19:20

But we're often in the present moment like kind of wishing it were a different present moment, and mindfulness is the invitation to just be here and that when our minds go into those ruminations, as you've been learning in the class, we learn to come back to the moment.

How to Stay Present in a Distracted World

Diana Winston: 19:36

So we do it. We can learn it through a meditation practice, and that's sort of the core thing. But what I will also say to the people who are skeptical is once you get a hang of it, you can then bring it into your daily life, and that's what's really interesting, because it's not just okay. I've got to sit and meditate every day. And that's what's going to help me, because although it will, but I can also when I'm in the middle of a hot flash, I can pause, feel my feet on the ground, breathe and not let the anxiety sometimes, you know we get anxiety with a hot flash not let us go there right and to stay in the present moment. Oh, what are these interesting, weird, awful but interesting sensations right here in the moment. So we can use it throughout the day, and that's when mindfulness gets super helpful.

Jenn Salib Huber: 20:25

Yeah, and I think my experience prior to the last few months was that if I was going through a really stressful time or I felt really anxious, I'd be like, oh yeah, I'm going to try some of those meditations, and so I would use it somewhat successfully in moments when I needed it, but then I wouldn't. I would just forget about it right afterwards.

Jenn Salib Huber: 20:49

And so that's one of the big changes that I've noticed by trying to have this regular practice now is that it is easier to dip into the when I need them, but it really is also just keeping it top of mind. It's kind of like, you know, when you have something in your closet that you never reach for, and then you find it one day and you're like, oh my gosh, I forgot about this. I love it so much. But if you're wearing it all the time, you know it's there. And that's kind of how I'm trying to think of building this meditation practice, which still is work for me. I still need the reminders on my phone, I still need to do all the things to make myself remember to choose it, but it really is starting to change the way that I use it, which has been really interesting to observe.

Diana Winston: 21:34

Well, it's fantastic. I mean it's great You're seeing the value and then you're trying to find ways to prioritize it and make it realistic in your life. I mean you're not going to be doing like five hours a day or something, and just for anybody listening who thinks oh gosh, I can never do that.

Jenn Salib Huber: 21:48

Some days it's a five minute body scan. You know, I lower the bar as low as it can go some days, but I'm really just like no, I can do five minutes. You know, I can do five minutes when I have more time. I might do a longer one, I might try different ones, but I can always find five minutes when I have more time. I might do a longer one, I might try different ones, but I can always find five minutes.

And just realizing that it doesn't have to be this 60 minute practice sitting cross legged on the floor, really opened my mind to what it could be. So I'd love to talk a little bit about people who are interested in getting started. So maybe somebody who's heard of it has, you know, just a little bit of experience maybe feels overwhelmed at just the idea, very much like I did. What would you suggest as a starting point or how can they get started in a way that doesn't feel overwhelming?

The Role of Mindfulness in Emotional Regulation

Diana Winston: 22:34

Well, like you were suggesting, keeping the bar really low so it feels doable. I mean, I usually also start people off with five minutes a day and then if it can fit that into their life, then they can do more. You know, and what I recommend is using some kind of audio to get started. So there's the app. So you know, the app that I'm connected with, happier, has lots of different meditations of different lengths, and then we have and that's the one that's making the menopause program that I'm sure I'll talk about UCLA Mindful. We have our app at UCLA. That's the one that's making the menopause program that I'm sure I'll talk about. Ucla Mindful. We have our app at UCLA. That's free and it just has lots of little three-minute meditation, five-minute meditation.

Overcoming Common Challenges in a Mindfulness Practice

Diana Winston: 23:16

So, just giving it a try, it can be helpful, like you're doing, jen, with taking a class, but not everyone has access to that, because then you'll get more in depth and more of a accountability and also a community around it.

Diana Winston: 23:32

But there are lots of ways that you can learn just by starting with an app or recording in some way. And the basic thing is, what you're trying to do is just begin by getting comfortable with the idea of sitting with yourself for a few minutes and finding something to focus on. For most people it's the breathing, and you can find your breath in your abdomen or chest or nose.

Some people listen to sounds. That's a great way. There's also you mentioned, the body scan, but something really simple that we can do that is repetitive, that we just stay with. We notice a breath and then we stay with a breath for I don't know a few seconds and then our attention wanders off and we notice that it's wandered off and we come back and we do it really gently and kindly and that builds up more kindness for ourselves as we do the practice yeah, and the kindness towards ourselves.

Jenn Salib Huber: 24:24

I think is is an important reminder, because it's so easy to get into the. I can't do this right, I can't focus on my breath, my mind is wandering, I'm doing it wrong because I'm like thinking to what I'm going to do afterwards again. I've tried, you know, a couple of years essentially of, you know, doing it on my own and committed to this class, and what I do really enjoy about it is that we talk about our experience, we meditate as a group and then we talk about it afterwards like how did you feel? And so, even if you're, you know, not doing a class because, like you said, it's not always accessible and it is a commitment in all the ways, but even just recognizing that it really doesn't have, you can't do meditation wrong. You know, we always say, like, with intuitive eating, there's no wrong. You can't fail at intuitive eating, you can't fail at meditating right, it's just a, it's a commitment to practice, it's not a commitment to do it right.

Diana Winston: 25:18

Absolutely Totally agree yeah.

Jenn Salib Huber: 25:21

So I think the apps are really helpful and I'd love to kind of hear a little bit more about the, the menopause program that happier is partnering with you to develop yeah, so we've, um, we developed a free resource.

Diana Winston: 25:35

It's a, it's a website, and but obviously you can do it mobile, and it has different meditations linked that would be helpful for different menopause symptoms. So I I'm not going to remember them all, probably, but so there, here's a meditation you could try if you're having a hot flash. Here's a meditation you can try if you're dealing with brain fog, and they're not, it might necessarily it might be something you could do on the spot, or you could do it at another time to help build up your you know, your, what's the word I'm looking for? I'm having brain fog, but anyway your capacity, so that when you deal with it next time you'll have that. So a brain fog one might be a meditation that helps you concentrate more.

Diana Winston: 26:20

There's ones for insomnia, so these are ones you can do in the middle of the night, when you wake up or when you can't fall asleep. There's meditations that are about acceptance, self-acceptance, like how can I just be with this body that's aging and changing without getting lost in the judgment and the shame and the other issues that come up? There's another one for mood and having to have that thing I talked about in the very beginning this even-mindedness, balance, what we call equanimity, that's cultivated through a meditation practice to help us with the mood swings, and then there's I think the last one is about like owning your power, like it's time to just not see menopause as I know this is definitely your perspective but as something like okay, now we're disposable, but this is where we're really stepping into our power. So what you do with this course is it's not even a course, it's just resources that you can use on the spot, and then further resources and exercises and so forth that you can use.

Jenn Salib Huber: 27:20

Great, and we'll put a link in the show notes for anybody who wants to have a look at it. It looks like a really great resource for people, especially people who may be really new to meditation and just don't even know where to start. The interesting thing about hot flashes is that anything that increases or decreases your heart rate can have an impact on your hot flashes, and so I think that having that tool in your back pocket when you feel that hot flash coming on could be really helpful, because, you're right, a lot of people do experience the anxiety. Some people are also experiencing heart palpitations as part of that class of vasomotor symptoms, and so I think that that's an important reminder, too Anything else that you would like people to know about meditation, or meditation and menopause, or just meditation in general.

How to Incorporate Mindfulness at Work and Home

Diana Winston: 28:04

I mean, I think that it, like you were saying earlier, it is a practice. It's not something that we just do once and we're good at it and that's it. It's something that takes time and, just like any skill that you're trying to build, I want to offer a little tiny like one minute practice that I think is helpful, so that, even if you don't know mindfulness, you might be able to still try this. Would that be useful? Okay, so it's a little acronym that I like, called STOP, and it stands for stop, take a breath, observe and proceed to bring in mindfulness.

Diana Winston: 28:50

Or maybe you're about to get angry at your child or your partner, or you're feeling anxious and you just, oh right, that mindfulness thing that they were talking about on the podcast, okay, well, I'll stop. So you stop and then you and everyone can try it with me. Right, the second, eyes open or close, you would take a breath and if you're driving, don't close your eyes, but take a breath and observe something that's happening inside me right now. 

My heart is racing, my jaw is clenched, my stomach is tight, or it might be. I'm noticing my thoughts or I'm noticing sounds from the outside, something happening inside or outside me. You can take another breath and then P proceed and we're done and it takes like 10 seconds, but it brings mindfulness in as a kind of like intervention into the mood swings and the worry and the concern. It can be just a really helpful tool, whether or not you're practicing mindfulness, but you might want to try more of it.

Jenn Salib Huber: 29:45

That's a great tip. Thanks so much for sharing that. And try more of it. That's a great tip. Thanks so much for sharing that. Thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom and I'm sure that some a few more people will be interested in trying meditation, and we'll put the links to resources in the show notes, but I'd love to hear what you think is the missing ingredient in midlife.

Final Thoughts on Cultivating Awareness

Diana Winston: 30:01

I think the missing ingredient I'm not exactly sure how to answer this question, but I just want to really emphasize that in midlife we often think that it's like the world is ending, sort of like our youth, our beauty, our power, you know is it's the opposite, Like this is the time where we're stepping into our strength and our power and a time we can stop caring about what other people think and having to do everything for everyone else, and the menopausal changes are kind of like a gateway into this new being that we are entering at this age. So I think the missing ingredient is just like remembering that we got to remember that that's true and live from it.

Jenn Salib Huber: 30:52

Yes, I am here for that. So thank you for that suggestion and thank you so much for sharing, for sharing everything today. It was really nice to have this conversation with you.

Diana Winston: 31:04

My pleasure yeah.

Jenn Salib Huber: 31:07

Thanks for tuning in to this week's episode of the midlife feast. For more non-diet, health, hormone and general midlife support, click the link in the show notes to learn how you can work and learn from me. And if you enjoyed this episode and found it helpful, please consider leaving a review or subscribing, because it helps other women just like you find us and feel supported in midlife.